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Tuning piano, children, music Четверг, 21.09.2017, 15:23
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Продолжение дискуссии по запрессовке колков

Новая методика восстановления старых пианино была раньше описана  здесь:http://donguluk.ucoz.ru/publ/bit_ili_ne_bit/1-1-0-13

 Maximillyan Ilya Mamedov 

я руководствуясь данным видео сделал запресcовку двух нестроющих колков своего пианино. Метод прекрасно работает. Могу рекомендовать его как способ закрепления колков http://youtu.be/CGk3dS6dKow Based on this video I set up a shim under two loose pins my upright piano. The method works fine. I can recommend it as a way of fixing   Maximillyan Bass string. Max's shim(fix)online http://youtu.be/--slQtf7H_c  

Maximillyan Today I re-watched video YouTube Sasha5970418 I am very glad for his work. Sasha repaired hospital piano with using cardboard shim. "If you vidili the state he was!. When I came to (a hospital) here are sunflower seeds, candy wrappers out of a box of juice and many other dirt. By keeping a diary, I found that recovering of this piano I'd spent 24.5 hours. Most of the work it's repair of hammers. And a time when I deleted grooves from a hammer. A temperament after ten years no one did it. A piano's hammers was "hollowed" is very strong. I'm very pleased - this is what all the pins hold pitch and it's general goal. Thank you very much uncle Max for his help". Sasha5970418 11 мес. назад Если бы Вы видили в каком он состоянии был!.Когда я пришел(это больница) в инструменте находились семечки,фантики коробка из под сока и прочие нечистоты. Ведя дневник,я посчитал, что на востановление этого инструмента ушло 24,5 часа.Большую часть работ заняла шлифовка молотков и темперация(всё-таки десять лет этим никто не занимался,а инструмент "долбили" очень сильно.Кстати,что порадовало - это то,что все колки держали строй и это главное.Спасибо Вам большое д. Максим за Вашу помощь.

 

Maximillyan Jazz pianist Eric tried to set some sort shims on your own piano for pin's tighten . Dear technicians, I bad understand English, so I want to ask your to clarify whether Eric was possible to do this? What is his result with a shim? Is it good or bad? http://late-to-jazz.blogspot.com/2011/01/day-76-sunday-january-9-more-things-to.html

   

Johnkie Loc: England If he was using the metal shims Max ... it just doesn't work ! They are terrible and he would be better off using sandpaper or your preferred cardboard.

   

Mark R. Loc: Pretoria, South Africa He is using sandpaper shim

 

Maximillyan 1000 Post Club Member Originally Posted By: Johnkie If he was using the metal shims Max ... it just doesn't work ! They are terrible and he would be better off using sandpaper or your preferred cardboard.

or your preferred cardboard. It's great! Thank,Johnkie. About the fact that Erik used the metal shims I'm seen. And it's does not work. I also realized that he made a tighten using a sandpaper and it is satisfies him . But about the cardboard I did not read anything there

   

Maximillyan Originally Posted By: Mark R. He is using sandpaper shims. Thank you Mark R,I understood so it. He set sandpaper shims and he turns pin into a pinblock

 

Maximillyan "Is it possible to patent an invention in Russia?" It's been 3 years, but the Russian Forum technicians, led by the moderator Alexy have mocking laugh about the cardboard of Max. He ( moderator) even created a topics: "Is it possible to patent an invention in Russia?" But Max is not discouraged, because he believes in cardboard shim because it's help repair hopeless piano

ALEXY Скоро будет 5 лет, как я принимаю участие в нашем форуме. Высказано много интересных мыслей, проходят необычные решения, предложения по конструкциям фортепиано, по восстановлению их, по материалам и орудиям труда. Некоторые изобретения явно могли быть зафиксированы , как авторская находка. Кстати , это касается и всех мастеров , работающих на ниве создания, обслуживания и восстановления музыкальных инструментов. Был ли подобный опыт , вот в чем вопрос

ALEXY It will soon be five years since I participate in the forum. Expressed many interesting ideas, are unusual solutions, proposals for repair piano, to restore them, the materials and instruments of labor. Some inventions can be clearly recorded, as the author's repair. By the way, this applies to all technicians working in the field of creation, maintenance and repair of musical instruments. Was this experience, that is the question

Tuner Алексей! Это опасный путь, ведь так можно запатентовать закрепление строя шкуркой, бумагой, пластмассой и все, что угодно - поскольку все это "патентно чисто". Кто будет экспертом, определяющим патентную чистоту? Либо тот, кто ничего не понимает в фортепианном деле и совершенно формально проверяющий иностранные патенты, либо точно такой же "изобретатель", уже засветившийся в патентном бюро и потому ставший "экспертом".

Tuner Alexy! This is a dangerous way, is not it can be patented a tighten abrasive cloth, cardboard paper, plastic and any - because everything is "purely patent." Who is an expert in determining the purity of the patent? Or the one who does not understand anything in a piano case and quite formally validating foreign patents, or exactly the same, the "inventor" is who have blat at the patent office, and therefore become the "expert."

erisipilloid Вопрос многогранный, но все же.А чего Вы от патента хочите -то? Можно и картон запатентовать, и никакого "чистого" патенства ненужно, как раз за бугром, Вы можете любую ересь запатентовать, и никому до этого дела нет.. Главный вопрос кому нужна эта Ваша ересь?, гофрокартон например? Ответ-никому!

erisipilloid A multi-faceted issue, but still. And what do you want from a patent ? You can would patent cardboard and there is no "pure" patent is unnecessary as the time abroad. You can patent any heresy here, and nobody no deal .. The big question who needs this your heresy? A corrugated cardboard for example? The answer is none! http://www.forumklassika.ru/showthread.php?t=96168&s=af98eda330fcac54a33a822fc3263bc9

   

Maximillyan E.Kalman . The duo Silva and Ephiny from the operetta "Silva " This upright piano " Belarus " 1972. The fact is that in those years (71-72) in the music factory in Borisov's town were admitted technological marriage fixation of a pins . Was it due to the pins with a special compound coating of zinc, which delete peeled off from it's, and as a result there are some grease pins , which led to the absence of friction between a pin and a hole of a pinblock (bush).May be a hole of a pinblock was done incorrectly a drilling the hole under the pin and a bush, their cross section was big than usual standard . After prolonged use , "Belarus" loose these pins . Hammering pin usually does not lead to positive results. In our case , the tuner has done a sloppy procedure hammering pin . A piano was dead. Owners pianos were delivered before the fact to get rid of the non-working piano. Only thanks to the effort maxim_tuner and his install corrugated cardboard shims under part of the pins the piano again returned to life. Now Max make tuning and we are play music . Kalman sounds convincing and life-affirming sounds of " Silva " joy gives their beauty. Glory corrugated cardboard which savior defective and ancient piano! http://youtu.be/cC9dljInZOM

 

Emmery Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada "..Glory corrugated cardboard which savior defective and ancient piano!" A word of warning to the cardboard Messiah. Cardboard is very much different from normal writing paper in several ways. It has a courser fibre content and typically contains acids and chemicals which are normally removed from stationary paper. It became well known with paper documents of the past that they did not last long because the fibers deteriorates and break down due to the high acidity. The recipe for their manufacture was altered so that PH levels were neutralized or even shifted to the alkaline direction. Documents could be preserved longer. This did not happen with cardboard. Most industrial grade cardboard has high acidity and numerous treatment chemicals left in it and could deteriorate over time or effect items which they come into contact with. Not sure what effect this might have on blued tuning pins, but its highly unlikely it would be positive. There are specialty cardboards available which are ph neutral just like writing paper and Max may want to consider using this instead. There are also special pens available to test the acidity of paper.

 

Olek Loc: France Originally Posted By: Emmery "..Glory corrugated cardboard which savior defective and ancient piano!" That is eventual good information. I would not think of using cardboard to shim tuning pins (I would use wood or even brass foil) but I tune a 1900 grand Steinway with original block and the pins just one size up. Many pin's hole are "plugged" with 2 carboard shims, some of then even by simple thick paper. The first times I tuned that piano I thought that the tuning would not hold well, as the feel was really sloppy and lack the wanted firmness. But today after may be 5 tunings, I have one pin that I feel too soft, all the others are firm and the piano, played professionally, exhibit not large loss of pith or the infamous string that doe snot stay put where the pin cannot be set. This is not corrugated cardboard but standard grey cardboard of unknown quality. The new firmness is of course due to the pin setting method but the cardboard does not make that impossible as I thought. Hey if eventually some acidity is corroding the pin inside the block, that could even add some friction don't you think ? I wonder if parchment would do well for that use.

 

Olek Loc: France It have no much to do with any Messiah, and the value of corrugated cardboard hardly can be proved, as the user does not tune really at a level allowing to hear that the piano hold tuning correctly, we cannot judge the quality of the pin setting and are obliged to trust him. I tested in a soft woodblock and the feeling with corrugated carboard was not that bad. less bad than I thought. Now how does it stay in time,I dont know. It is also more time consuming, as when using cardboard shims or wooden ones the pin is hammered in the block, not screwed.

   

Emmery Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada Originally Posted By: Olek It have no much to do with any Messiah, and the value of corrugated cardboard hardly can be proved, as the user does not tune really at a level allowing to hear that the piano hold tuning correctly, we cannot judge the quality of the pin setting and are obliged to trust him. I tested in a soft woodblock and the feeling with corrugated carboard was not that bad. less bad than I thought. Now how does it stay in time,I dont know. It is also more time consuming, as when using cardboard shims or wooden ones the pin is hammered in the block, not screwed. I had used paper and cardboard many years ago and its not bad. I know several oldtimer techs who recommended it with similar results. It is hard to judge how much is too much and I often worried about splitting a block apart farther if it showed a tendancy towards this. I haven't used it in years because for minor/cheaper fixes, CA Glue works well, and for everything else I use over sized pins. The pins are known fixed sizes and with experience you learn to go 1 or 2 sizes over for varying amounts of looseness, sometimes accompanied with some truing up/sizing with a reamer. I find its more foolproof for getting eactly the torque I'm looking for on that pin.

 

Maximillyan Originally Posted By: Emmery "..Glory corrugated cardboard which savior defective and ancient piano!" A word of warning to the cardboard Messiah. Cardboard is very much different from normal writing paper in several ways. It has a courser fibre content and typically contains acids and chemicals which are normally removed from stationary paper. Dear Emmery, I can not disagree with you. Indeed cardboard manufacturers all world use different chemical compositions. There will be a variety of acidic and alkaline. This can influence bad both the wood and the metal pin. However I do not suppose that this will a significant factor and lead to a negative effect, because it has a small percentage of these substances. Thanks for your the scientific approach in criticizing Max's cardboard shim. Sincerely, Max

 

Maximillyan Originally Posted By: Emmery "..Glory corrugated cardboard which savior defective and ancient piano!" There are specialty cardboards available which are ph neutral just like writing paper and Max may want to consider using this instead. There are also special pens available to test the acidity of paper. Hey if eventually some acidity is corroding the pin inside the block, that could even add some friction don't you think ? I wonder if parchment would do well for that use. "that could even add some friction don't you think ?  I think "YES" In 14-15 c. its use for repair pin of harpsichord

   

Maximillyan Originally Posted By: Emmery Originally Posted By: Olek It have no much to do with any Messiah, and the value of corrugated cardboard hardly can be proved, as the user does not tune really at a level allowing to hear that the piano hold tuning correctly, we cannot judge the quality of the pin setting and are obliged to trust him. I tested in a soft woodblock and the feeling with corrugated carboard was not that bad. less bad than I thought. Now how does it stay in time,I dont know. It is also more time consuming, as when using cardboard shims or wooden ones the pin is hammered in the block, not screwed. I had used paper and cardboard many years ago and its not bad. I know several oldtimer techs who recommended it with similar results. It is hard to judge how much is too much and I often worried about splitting a block apart farther if it showed a tendancy towards this. I haven't used it in years because for minor/cheaper fixes, CA Glue works well, and for everything else I use over sized pins. The pins are known fixed sizes and with experience you learn to go 1 or 2 sizes over for varying amounts of looseness, sometimes accompanied with some truing up/sizing with a reamer. I find its more foolproof for getting eactly the torque I'm looking for on that pin. I agree with every your word. Every medal has two sides. Any thing has both a positive and a negative side. Cardboard in the hole still positive, I think

 

Maximillyan   Dear Isaac , I'm with particular trepidation read your message about the 1900 Grand Steinway. I dare to assume that the previous tuner guided my video about to tighten pin with a cardboard shim. Especially nice to read "but today, after maybe 5 tunings , I have one conclusion, which I feel is too soft , the rest of the firm and piano, played professionally ." This proves once again that the cardboard or as you wrote , " but it's not the standard corrugated cardboard gray unknown quality " has the right as a means to tighten pin . The only difference from my installation it's " with 2 cardboard shims simple thick paper " is a pin hole " hammered " here. Some of my followers have written to me that they use a thin cardboard shims less than 2mm . They screwed pin by 2-3 turns , then "plugged " it's. I suppose such an operation possibility , but personally I'm still slowly twist pin with shim to standard height above the plate . Once again, many thanks for your scientific approach to a theme Regards, Max

Категория: Мои статьи | Добавил: donguluk (21.11.2013) | Автор: Максим-тюнер E W
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