Новая методика восстановления старых пианино была раньше описана здесь:http://donguluk.ucoz.ru/publ/bit_ili_ne_bit/1-1-0-13
Maximillyan
Ilya
Mamedov я руководствуясь данным видео сделал запресcовку двух нестроющих колков своего
пианино. Метод прекрасно работает. Могу рекомендовать его как способ закрепления колков
http://youtu.be/CGk3dS6dKow
Based on this video I set up a shim under two loose pins my upright piano.
The method works fine. I can recommend it as a way of fixing
Maximillyan
Bass string. Max's shim(fix)online
http://youtu.be/--slQtf7H_c
Maximillyan
Today I re-watched video YouTube Sasha5970418
I am very glad for his work. Sasha repaired hospital piano with using
cardboard shim.
"If you vidili the state he was!. When I came to (a hospital) here are
sunflower seeds, candy wrappers out of a box of juice and many other dirt.
By keeping a diary, I found that recovering of this piano I'd spent 24.5 hours.
Most of the work it's repair of hammers. And a time when I deleted grooves from
a hammer. A temperament after ten years no one did it. A piano's hammers was
"hollowed" is very strong. I'm very pleased - this is what all the
pins hold pitch and it's general goal. Thank you very much uncle Max for his help".
Sasha5970418
11 мес. назад
Если бы Вы видили в каком он состоянии был!.Когда я пришел(это больница) в
инструменте находились семечки,фантики коробка из под сока и прочие нечистоты.
Ведя дневник,я посчитал, что на востановление этого инструмента ушло 24,5
часа.Большую часть работ заняла шлифовка молотков и темперация(всё-таки десять
лет этим никто не занимался,а инструмент "долбили" очень
сильно.Кстати,что порадовало - это то,что все колки держали строй и это
главное.Спасибо Вам большое д. Максим за Вашу помощь.
Maximillyan
Jazz pianist Eric tried to set some sort shims on your own piano for pin's
tighten . Dear technicians, I bad understand English, so I want to ask your to
clarify whether Eric was possible to do this? What is his result with a shim?
Is it good or bad?
http://late-to-jazz.blogspot.com/2011/01/day-76-sunday-january-9-more-things-to.html
Johnkie
Loc: England
If he was using the metal shims Max ... it just
doesn't work ! They are terrible and he would be better off using sandpaper or
your preferred cardboard.
Mark R.
Loc: Pretoria,
South Africa
He is using sandpaper shim
Maximillyan
1000 Post Club Member
Originally Posted By: Johnkie
If he was using the metal shims Max ... it just
doesn't work ! They are terrible and he would be better off using sandpaper or
your preferred cardboard. or your preferred cardboard. It's great!
Thank,Johnkie. About the fact that Erik used the metal shims I'm seen. And it's
does not work.
I also realized that he made a tighten using a sandpaper and it is satisfies
him . But about the cardboard I did not read anything there
Maximillyan
Originally Posted By: Mark R.
He is using sandpaper shims.
Thank you Mark R,I understood so it. He set sandpaper shims and he turns pin
into a pinblock
Maximillyan
"Is it possible to patent an invention in Russia?"
It's been 3 years, but the Russian Forum
technicians, led by the moderator Alexy have mocking laugh about the cardboard
of Max. He ( moderator) even created a topics: "Is it possible to patent
an invention in Russia?"
But Max is not discouraged, because he believes in cardboard shim because it's
help repair hopeless piano ALEXY
Скоро
будет 5 лет, как
я
принимаю
участие
в
нашем
форуме.
Высказано
много интересных мыслей, проходят необычные решения, предложения по
конструкциям фортепиано, по восстановлению их, по материалам и орудиям труда.
Некоторые изобретения явно могли быть зафиксированы , как авторская находка.
Кстати , это касается и всех мастеров , работающих на ниве создания,
обслуживания и восстановления музыкальных инструментов.
Был ли подобный опыт , вот
в
чем
вопрос ALEXY
It will soon be five years since I participate in the forum.
Expressed many interesting ideas, are unusual solutions, proposals for repair
piano, to restore them, the materials and instruments of labor.
Some inventions can be clearly recorded, as the author's repair.
By the way, this applies to all technicians working in the field of creation,
maintenance and repair of musical instruments.
Was this experience, that is the question Tuner
Алексей!
Это
опасный путь, ведь так можно запатентовать закрепление строя шкуркой, бумагой,
пластмассой и все, что угодно - поскольку все это "патентно чисто".
Кто будет экспертом, определяющим патентную чистоту? Либо тот, кто ничего не
понимает в фортепианном деле и совершенно формально проверяющий иностранные
патенты, либо точно такой же "изобретатель", уже засветившийся в
патентном бюро и потому ставший "экспертом". Tuner
Alexy!
This is a dangerous way, is not it can
be patented a tighten abrasive cloth, cardboard paper, plastic and any -
because everything is "purely patent."
Who is an expert in determining the purity of the patent? Or the one who does
not understand anything in a piano case and quite formally validating foreign
patents, or exactly the same, the "inventor" is who have blat at the
patent office, and therefore become the "expert." erisipilloid
Вопрос многогранный, но все же.А чего Вы от патента хочите -то? Можно и картон
запатентовать, и никакого "чистого" патенства ненужно, как раз за
бугром, Вы можете любую ересь запатентовать, и никому до этого дела нет..
Главный вопрос кому нужна эта Ваша ересь?, гофрокартон например? Ответ-никому! erisipilloid
A multi-faceted issue, but still. And what do you want from a patent ? You
can would patent cardboard and there is no "pure" patent is
unnecessary as the time abroad. You can patent any heresy here, and nobody no
deal .. The big question who needs this your heresy? A corrugated cardboard for
example? The answer is none!
http://www.forumklassika.ru/showthread.php?t=96168&s=af98eda330fcac54a33a822fc3263bc9
Maximillyan
E.Kalman . The duo Silva and Ephiny from the operetta "Silva "
This upright piano " Belarus
" 1972. The fact is that in those years (71-72) in the music factory in
Borisov's town were admitted technological marriage fixation of a pins . Was it
due to the pins with a special compound coating of zinc, which delete peeled
off from it's, and as a result there are some grease pins , which led to the
absence of friction between a pin and a hole of a pinblock (bush).May be a hole
of a pinblock was done incorrectly a drilling the hole under the pin and a
bush, their cross section was big than usual standard . After prolonged use , "Belarus"
loose these pins . Hammering pin usually does not lead to positive results. In
our case , the tuner has done a sloppy procedure hammering pin . A piano was
dead. Owners pianos were delivered before the fact to get rid of the
non-working piano. Only thanks to the effort maxim_tuner and his install
corrugated cardboard shims under part of the pins the piano again returned to
life. Now Max make tuning and we are play music . Kalman sounds convincing and
life-affirming sounds of " Silva " joy gives their beauty.
Glory corrugated cardboard which savior defective and ancient piano!
http://youtu.be/cC9dljInZOM
Emmery
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
"..Glory corrugated cardboard which savior
defective and ancient piano!"
A word of warning to the cardboard Messiah. Cardboard is very much different
from normal writing paper in several ways. It has a courser fibre content and
typically contains acids and chemicals which are normally removed from
stationary paper.
It became well known with paper documents of the past that they did not last
long because the fibers deteriorates and break down due to the high acidity.
The recipe for their manufacture was altered so that PH levels were neutralized
or even shifted to the alkaline direction. Documents could be preserved longer.
This did not happen with cardboard. Most industrial grade cardboard has high
acidity and numerous treatment chemicals left in it and could deteriorate over
time or effect items which they come into contact with. Not sure what effect
this might have on blued tuning pins, but its highly unlikely it would be
positive.
There are specialty cardboards available which are ph neutral just like writing
paper and Max may want to consider using this
instead. There are also special pens available to test the acidity of paper.
Olek
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Emmery
"..Glory corrugated cardboard which savior
defective and ancient piano!"
That is eventual good information.
I would not think of using cardboard to shim tuning pins (I would use wood or
even brass foil) but I tune a 1900 grand Steinway with original block and the
pins just one size up.
Many pin's hole are "plugged" with 2 carboard shims, some of then
even by simple thick paper.
The first times I tuned that piano I thought that the tuning would not hold
well, as the feel was really sloppy and lack the wanted firmness. But today
after may be 5 tunings, I have one pin that I feel too soft, all the others are
firm and the piano, played professionally, exhibit not large loss of pith or
the infamous string that doe snot stay put where the pin cannot be set.
This is not corrugated cardboard but standard grey cardboard of unknown
quality.
The new firmness is of course due to the pin setting method but the cardboard
does not make that impossible as I thought.
Hey if eventually some acidity is corroding the pin inside the block, that
could even add some friction don't you think ?
I wonder if parchment would do well for that use.
Olek
Loc: France
It have no much to do with any Messiah, and the value
of corrugated cardboard hardly can be proved, as the user does not tune really at
a level allowing to hear that the piano hold tuning correctly, we cannot judge
the quality of the pin setting and are obliged to trust him.
I tested in a soft woodblock and the feeling with corrugated carboard was not
that bad. less bad than I thought. Now how does it stay in time,I dont know. It
is also more time consuming, as when using cardboard shims or wooden ones the
pin is hammered in the block, not screwed.
Emmery
Loc: Niagara Region, On. Canada
Originally Posted By: Olek
It have no much to do with any Messiah, and the value
of corrugated cardboard hardly can be proved, as the user does not tune really
at a level allowing to hear that the piano hold tuning correctly, we cannot
judge the quality of the pin setting and are obliged to trust him.
I tested in a soft woodblock and the feeling with corrugated carboard was not
that bad. less bad than I thought. Now how does it stay in time,I dont know. It
is also more time consuming, as when using cardboard shims or wooden ones the
pin is hammered in the block, not screwed.
I had used paper and cardboard many years ago and its not bad. I know several
oldtimer techs who recommended it with similar results. It is hard to judge how
much is too much and I often worried about splitting a block apart farther if
it showed a tendancy towards this. I haven't used it in years because for
minor/cheaper fixes, CA Glue works well, and for everything else I use over
sized pins. The pins are known fixed sizes and with experience you learn to go
1 or 2 sizes over for varying amounts of looseness, sometimes accompanied with
some truing up/sizing with a reamer. I find its more foolproof for getting
eactly the torque I'm looking for on that pin.
Maximillyan
Originally Posted By: Emmery
"..Glory corrugated cardboard which savior
defective and ancient piano!"
A word of warning to the cardboard Messiah. Cardboard is very much different
from normal writing paper in several ways. It has a courser fibre content and
typically contains acids and chemicals which are normally removed from
stationary paper.
Dear Emmery, I can not disagree with you. Indeed cardboard manufacturers all
world use different chemical compositions. There will be a variety of acidic
and alkaline. This can influence bad both the wood and the metal pin. However I
do not suppose that this will a significant factor and lead to a negative
effect, because it has a small percentage of these substances.
Thanks for your the scientific approach in criticizing Max's cardboard shim.
Sincerely, Max
Maximillyan
Originally Posted By: Emmery
"..Glory corrugated cardboard which savior
defective and ancient piano!"
There are specialty cardboards available which are ph neutral just like writing
paper and Max may want to consider using this
instead. There are also special pens available to test the acidity of paper.
Hey if eventually some acidity is corroding the pin inside the block, that
could even add some friction don't you think ?
I wonder if parchment would do well for that use.
"that could even add some friction don't you think ?
I think "YES"
In 14-15 c. its use for repair pin of harpsichord
Maximillyan
Originally Posted By: Emmery
Originally Posted By: Olek
It have no much to do with any Messiah, and the value
of corrugated cardboard hardly can be proved, as the user does not tune really
at a level allowing to hear that the piano hold tuning correctly, we cannot
judge the quality of the pin setting and are obliged to trust him.
I tested in a soft woodblock and the feeling with corrugated carboard was not
that bad. less bad than I thought. Now how does it stay in time,I dont know. It
is also more time consuming, as when using cardboard shims or wooden ones the
pin is hammered in the block, not screwed.
I had used paper and cardboard many years ago and its not bad. I know
several oldtimer techs who recommended it with similar results. It is hard
to judge how much is too much and I often worried about splitting a block apart
farther if it showed a tendancy towards this. I haven't used it in years
because for minor/cheaper fixes, CA Glue works well, and for everything else I
use over sized pins. The pins are known fixed sizes and with experience you
learn to go 1 or 2 sizes over for varying amounts of looseness, sometimes
accompanied with some truing up/sizing with a reamer. I find its more foolproof
for getting eactly the torque I'm looking for on that pin.
I agree with every your word. Every medal has two sides. Any thing has both a
positive and a negative side. Cardboard in the hole still positive, I
think
Maximillyan
Dear Isaac , I'm with particular trepidation read your
message about the 1900 Grand Steinway. I dare to assume that the previous tuner
guided my video about to tighten pin with a cardboard shim. Especially nice to
read "but today, after maybe 5 tunings , I have one conclusion, which I
feel is too soft , the rest of the firm and piano, played professionally
." This proves once again that the cardboard or as you wrote , " but
it's not the standard corrugated cardboard gray unknown quality " has the
right as a means to tighten pin . The only difference from my installation it's
" with 2 cardboard shims simple thick paper " is a pin hole "
hammered " here. Some of my followers have written to me that they use a
thin cardboard shims less than 2mm . They screwed pin by 2-3 turns , then
"plugged " it's. I suppose such an operation possibility , but
personally I'm still slowly twist pin with shim to standard height above the
plate .
Once again, many thanks for your scientific approach to a theme
Regards, Max |