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Tuning piano, children, music Четверг, 21.09.2017, 15:17
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Главная » Статьи » Настройка фортепиано

Tuning a piano with mediator (plectrum). Настройка фортепиано с медиатором. 2

Продолжение дискуссии, часть 2.



 

музыки, а также фортепиано нужно было сдавать. Отец по большому блату изготовил мне конусный четырёхгранный ключ, и я стал практиковать на собственном пианино, абсолютно не зная основ настройки и темперации. Сейчас мне приятно и трепетно вспоминать те первые, но всё же, осмысленные шаги. Читая и поглощая в безмерных количествах литературу по музыкальной теории, я уяснил для себя, что есть звук и как его можно делить. Ни будь этой практики, думаю, что я никогда бы не понял и не смог бы настраивать инструменты. Надо так же отметить, что по причине моей провинциальности, я даже и не подозревал, что классический настроечный ключ совсем другой. Итак, постепенно запасаясь теоретическим и практическим багажом знания, я, практикуя на своей «Украине», неожиданно стал получать заказы. Главным откровением для меня стали слова одного преподавателя, имеющего за плечами Ленинградскую консерваторию, когда он отметил, что такой правильной и грамотной темперации он даже не смог бы себе вообразить на советском пианино. Это я потом уже для себя выяснил, что он имел ввиду, говоря, и посмеиваясь, что « Бах был бы рад».
Теперь по существу вопроса я должен заявить следующее,
никому и никаким образом не навязываю своего «неправильного метода настройки», потому, что как было сказано раньше «всё моё творчество есть продукт вынужденных обстоятельств», однако я считаю, что подобный метод имеет место быть и вот почему:
1. Одно из принципиальных преимуществ работы 4х гранным конусным ключом это очень трудное его вращение и подгонка нужного тона, таким образом, присутствует особая концентрация слуха настройщика и музыкального анализа искомого звука. В противном случае настройщик быстро утомится и не настроит правильных нот даже в хорах
2. При работе ключом мы невольно сохраняем ресурс посадочного места колка. Состояние колкового механизма – это « тело и душа фортепиано». Чем меньше перемещается колок в вербильбанке, тем больше остаточный ресурс пианино, и как следствие продолжительнее с точки зрения темперации «правильный звук». Я заметил, что настроенный мной инструмент, особенно импортного производства, до 5-7 лет не расстраивается!
3. Колки «не зализываются». Восьмигранный ключ, хотим мы это принимать или нет, всё равно, раз за разом срабатывает грани колка. А это ущерб колку.
4. Когда я работаю без заглушек, то без всяких условностей и самое главное, не отвлекаясь на перемещение искомых интервалов всего инструмента способен, экономя время и ресурс колка, слышать ВЕСЬ спектр гармонии и интервалики, как в отдельных секторах, так и в аккордовом изложении и подобно русскому гусляру.
5. Единственное и принципиальное неудобство, данного метода, его продолжительность. А, именно я настраиваю обычно более 5 часов. Однако неудобства настройщика не в счёт.
С уважением, ко всем участникам форума, Максим
In GOD WE TRuST

Maximillyan

Originally Posted By: Bojan Babic

[quote=Johnkie]
like the revolutionary discover of the cardboard shims.

You may laugh and cry simultaneously, but truth in that that idea with paperboard not new, but single correct. Shim cardboard provides 100% stability pin in pinblook

 UnrightTooner

Thinking about the extension on Max’s tool, I am reminded of the extension used for tuning the high treble on grands so that the hammer clears the case. There isn’t that much difference. Flagpoling is flagpoling. But the direction of the flagpoling can work for or against you. And even though a T-handle can remove all flagpoling, it does nothing for compensating for the spring from twisting the pin. However, selective flagpoling can compensate for the spring from twisting the pin. Yes, there is the residual torque and the rendering of the string to deal with also. But there is a specific point I want to make.
Although Max’s technique is painful for me to watch, it is still an opportunity to observe the physics involved. OK, the pin is being flagpoled an enormous amount in the flat direction. But at the same time the spring in the pin is in the sharp direction as is the residual torque and the string rendering. If there is enough bearing friction, it may not be necessary to ease the pin back CCW for stability. Unfortunately, I don’t think Max quite has things balanced that well.
Going back to the high treble on grands, I sometimes find one where putting the hammer at around 10 o’clock in the left hand works well. This is a similar position as Max’s, but without the extension which makes a huge difference.

 Loren D
There is no right way or wrong way of doing things, I guess. Anyone can use any methods, correct or not; any tools, correct or not. Results can be bad or good; it's all good.

Quote:

Unfortunately, this statement is incorrect. The T shape tuning hammer (wrench) gives you leverage and can bend and twist tuning pins, whatever you want and in any motion under precise control.
Nothing is wrong with sharing your special techniques to fellow piano technicians.

No, the statement is correct; let me rephrase it to make it clearer. The T lever does not give enough leverage to actually turn the pin, resulting in twisting and bending rather than turning. That leads to unstable tunings.
There is] nothing wrong with sharing your techniques, but promoting and supporting them if the techniques are wrong and can damage a piano, or if they lead to poor results is simply wrong. That may not be politically incorrect, but truth seldom is.
There seems to be an underlying sentiment with some here that whatever methods one uses are ok. It went so far as the Kawai thread, where a tech muscled plate bolts so hard that he sheared the heads off them, and some thing there's nothing wrong with the tech and everything wrong with the piano!
If advocating the use of proper tools and methods makes me the bad guy, so be it. New, innovative methods are one thing; makeshift methods and tools are quite another.

 UnrightTooner
Are you suggesting that we somehow protect Max's customers from themselves?

Jeff, my post is pretty easy to read; you know what I'm saying.

Yes I do know what you are saying, but I don't think you do. Believe it or not, you are saying the customer is not always right. That is the point I am trying to make. That attitude is a good way to not have a customer.

 Loren D

Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner

Originally Posted By: Loren D

Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner

Loren:
Are you suggesting that we somehow protect Max's customers from themselves?

Jeff, my post is pretty easy to read; you know what I'm saying.

Yes I do know what you are saying, but I don't think you do. Believe it or not, you are saying the customer is not always right. That is the point I am trying to make. That attitude is a good way to not have a customer.

Nope, you don't understand at all. In the interest of avoiding "cronyism," (as though somehow educating someone on proper techniques is that), you would allow someone who does substandard work to be out vandalizing pianos. Are you implying that a customer is "right" when he/she, not knowing better, calls a quack for service? Because if you are, that's actually laughable.
This is not the first time you attempt to twist things, Jeff, and both you and I know it won't be the last. Protecting an incompetent tech over the people whose pianos he damages is the very cronyism you claim to be against. Attempting to frame that as "protecting customers from themselves" or as the customer "not always being right" is both weak and funny at the same time.

 UnrightTooner
Loren:
Let's say Max was in the next town over from you. How would you handle the situation?

Loren D
Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner

Loren:
Let's say Max was in the next town over from you. How would you handle the situation?

It's not clear?

 UnrightTooner

Originally Posted By: Loren D

Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner

Loren:
Let's say Max was in the next town over from you. How would you handle the situation?

It's not clear?

Why are you answering a question with a question?

 Loren D
You mean like you just did?
Because you already admittedly know the answers. And because by this stage of the thread, if you don't know, you still won't know after I explain it to you.

 UnrightTooner

Originally Posted By: Loren D

You mean like you just did? smile
Because you already admittedly know the answers. And because by this stage of the thread, if you don't know, you still won't know after I explain it to you.

If you think that lets you off the hook, you are ignorantly smug.
There's one detail I haven't figured out. When we storm the castle to destroy the evil monster, do you go along or do you stay in your warm study and say "Oh, what a shame!" after rousing the rabble?

 rxd
Max, I would really appreciate a translation of your latest post that is in Cyrilic.
Loren. Thank you for your expertise on the use of the T hammer. With every word it becomes increasingly aparent that you have no skills or experiemce using one whatsoever.
If you had started with the words; "I would imagine" your whole diatribe might be taken a little more seriously.
As with any tool, it takes years of practice and experience to build the skills and develop the strength to use one. It doesn't take much strength to become adept at miniscule turning adjustments but does take a combination of delicacy and moderate strength. I am quite wiry in build and I have no trouble with it but have been using it for year, particularly in grand high trebles when it is inconvenient to raise the lid.
I'm going to use mine more as a result of this conversation. On approprite instruments, of course.
As for 'correct' and 'proper' tools, (what pedantic words) what could be more ideal than a tool that let's you separate out the various components of the mechanics of tuning in a way that a lever can't.

 Loren D Online embarrased
Good luck with the new pianos with monster pinblocks that are difficult to tune even with an impact hammer! It's your wrist, after all.

 rxd

Originally Posted By: Loren D
Good luck with the new pianos with monster pinblocks that are difficult to tune even with an impact hammer! It's your wrist, after all.

Of course, didn't I just get thru telling you that there are limits only a couple of posts back?
Please don't resort to these silly transparent arguing techniques to obfuscate the issue. It's an adolescent trick. You simply did not know what you were talking about.
It is quite possible that the lever was introduced to deal with very tight pinblocks. When were laminated pinblocks first introduced? I simply don't know so I won't write about things I don't know.
I am going to a meeting in a few days and several international piano historians will be present. I'll ask them.
I find history fascinating, don't you? Particularly now that a lot of it is in my lifetime.

 DoelKees

Translation:
Dear Eugene, moved to tears ensuing controversy around the theme: "Set up with the mediator." Frankly, he did not expect from our international forum such broad, and the most important moments of constructive discussion. Many thanks to all equipment that gave flattering assessment to me. Allow Eugene to ask you, once again extend a helping hand with a request to transfer my lines to be understood my position. Only you, as a practitioner, able to convey to the world's hopes and my personal experience. I will start with a lyric sheet, so that people can understand why Maxim does "everything topsy-turvy." I started using the Internet recently, less than 2 years ago because of my poverty. When I saw the clips on the network, as some tuners tuned, I will not deny, was surprised and even dismayed, by the methods and approaches that they apply in matters of temperament and technique work with the key. This does not mean that they are doing wrong, and only I know, "how to tune a piano." I was surprised by the techniques of working key, and it was very abrupt and ill-rotation, leading to an overestimation of the desired tone, and then released. You probably Eugene know what I mean? I think you like the practice of wizards, who worked in the Union, is well known that the splitting in the Soviet instruments are often installed in a traffic jam or verbilbanka window seat tube (frame testaceous species) is not centered. And this practice is not acceptable. Motion for setting up "Belarus" and "Toccata" is akin to the work field engineer in a minefield. Here, every movement must first be analyzed in terms of physics and the philosophy of the doctor "do no harm", otherwise it will not have that system, and even its approximate similarity, and then to smoothly maintain pressure throughout the arm, ignoring the ratchet key, attaching a clenched fist in base key. I sometimes, sorry for some indiscretion, "pulled from the Light", another Soviet model of piano and genuinely happy with the customer for an instrument which was made a "cross". How I came to the fact that I work with homemade, but very high quality keys, from the standpoint of physics? Again has to do digress. When I was very young and studied at the Ural State Music School, the program was necessary to study the subject of a "common piano," but I'm a populist (accordionist), then the parents have sacrificed in fact borrowed time adjustment amount of money so I could buy a second hand " Ukraine "in 1967. I set up the instrument at that time a good tuner in our city, but as you understand it less than a year, was upset, and I had a way out of this situation. Money for the setting to it, and tests on harmony and music theory, piano and had to surrender. His father made the big cronyism I tapered four-sided key, and I began to practice on your own piano, absolutely not knowing the basics of configuring and temperament. Now, I am pleased and anxious to remember those first, but nevertheless, meaningful steps. By reading and absorbing immense quantities in the literature on music theory, I understand for ourselves what is the sound and how it can divide. Nor whether this practice, I think I would have never understood and could not tune up. It should also be noted that because of my provincialism, I had no idea that the classical tuning key is different. So, gradually stocking the theoretical and practical knowledge of luggage, I'm practicing on his "Ukraine", suddenly began to receive orders. The main revelation for me were the words of one teacher who has behind him the Leningrad Conservatory, where he noted that such a proper and correct temperament, he could not even imagine the Soviet piano. This I then found out for myself what he meant when he said, and chuckled that "Bach would be pleased."
Now, on the merits, I must state the following,
anyone and in no way impose its "improper methods for setting", because as we said earlier, "All my work is the product of a coercive environment," but I believe that this method is the place to be and here's why:
1. One of the principal advantages of the 4 sided taper key is very difficult to rotate and fit the right tone, so there is a particular concentration of the hearing tuner and musical analysis of the desired sound. Otherwise, the tune quickly weary, and not set up correctly notes, even in the choir
2. When working key, we can not help save the life seat chopping. Pegs state mechanism - a "body and soul of the piano." The fewer moves in verbilbanke pin, the greater the residual life of a piano, and as a consequence of the longer terms of temperament, "the right sound." I noticed that I tuned instrument, especially imported, up to 5-7 years do not worry!
3. Tuners not "licking." The octagonal key, whether we like it or not take, anyway, over and over again triggered the verge of splitting. This damage pins.
4. When I work without stubs, then without any conditionality, and most importantly, staying focused on moving the desired intervals, the entire instrument is able to save time and resource chopping, to hear the full range of harmony and intervaliki, both in individual sectors, and in the presentation of chords and like the Russian guslar.
5. The only and fundamental disadvantage of this method, its duration. And, it is usually I set more than 5 hours. However, the inconvenience tuner does not count.
With respect to all participants of the forum, Maxim

 pianosxxi

Max,
Thank you for sharing your story. Very inspiring. Looks like you are on the right path. It's always good to know that someone is always looking for different ways to solve a problem or to perfect their skill. Wish you all the best.
As we already see, many techs (even in U.S.,
thumbto rxd) use T shape to tune pianos, I personally use it on hapsichords and harps. Unfortunately I cannot use it on the piano, due to lack of strength in my wrist. I believe that T shape tuning hammer is less damaging for piano compared to L shape. All in all, good piano techs can implement both when necessary.

 Maximillyan
Originally Posted By: pianosxxi

All in all, good piano techs can implement both when necessary.

Thank you Gene for good words . Indiscribable pleased that method of T shape tuning hammer use in USA. For me big discovery that You personally use for harp and hapsichords
Искренне Ваш Максим

 Maximillyan
Dear Sirs (UnrightToone, rxd, pianosxxi, DoelKees, pianolive, accordeur, rysowers) Thank You for support and understanding to importance of the subject. You have indicated much positive moments. I express feeling of the deep moral satisfaction for your messages

 Maximillyan
DoelKees спасибо за качественный и весьма понятный перевод
С уважением maxim_tuner (Maximillyan)

 Maximillyan
Originally Posted By: rxd

Originally Posted By: Loren D

Good luck with the new pianos with monster pinblocks that are difficult to tune even with an impact hammer! It's your wrist, after all.

I am going to a meeting in a few days and several international piano historians will be present. I'll ask them.

The Dear piano tec. forgive that film in russian only. Be can You will useful see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j-2cvK8hKA

 rxd
Thanks, DoelKees for the translation. A very touching story. I am very gratful to you.
I have discvered that it would cost £1800 (GBP) to send Max to Moscow with a 3* hotel for a week for intensive training. There are most likely other alternatives. Does anyone know someplace in Moscow That would be qualified to give this training?

 UnrightTooner

RXD:
The first step in helping Max would be better equipment. If there was some way to set up an account with Frank's PianoSupplies.com for Max to use I will put in the first $50.

 rxd

Jeff.
Read further back in the thread. Max did send me his address and I will mail him a tuning lever plus some other things. Pre-paying excise duty.
Your suggestion is brilliant.
Even though we often behave like a loose confederation of warring tribes, we can unite to help a colleague.

 UnrightTooner

RXD:
I have been trying to think of a similar situation as Max’s. The closest I can think of was in Zhanjiang, China. On different streets in the city, different craftsman worked. On some streets tin ware was made, on others furniture. On one, electric motors were repaired. Workers would sit out in the open and wind copper wire around their hands and then push them in place the best that they could. I can’t imagine that the results were as good as a modern facility could do, and it would be nothing like a new motor. So should these workers be held in low esteem? NO! They are taking something that is unusable and doing the best they can with what they have. That is how I look at Max’s efforts.
So does anybody have a close connection with Frank to pursue setting up an account for Max? Or maybe someone has another idea.

 Mark R.

Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner

I can’t imagine that the results were as good as a modern facility could do, and it would be nothing like a new motor. So should these workers be held in low esteem? NO! They are taking something that is unusable and doing the best they can with what they have.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that - kudos to them! We have similar street industries in some townships here in South Africa. In fact, it constitutes a whole so-called second or third economy.
But Max went one step further.
I do wonder what sort of comments those Chinese armature winders would have garnered if they, similar to what Max did, recorded a video of their efforts, uploaded it to youtube under the title, "The School of the young electrician" and posted it in a (more or less) professional electrician's forum for comments.

 rxd

OK Jeff, Ok. I saw the mammoth 'no'. You're not shouting at me, are you? I am familiar with your argument but, as you know, it isn't necessary for anything else to be wrong in order for one thing to be right. By the same token, it is not necessary to destroy Max's current skills in order to offer him complemenary ones.
My world is not either or, it's all encompassing as yours seems to be.
I just thought, does the guild offer scholarships to conventions?
Are we possibly being a bit patronising? I don't know.
Let the forum decide and, of course, Max.

 UnrightTooner

NO! I am not shouting at you. winkI am shouting at the elitist attitude of the developed world.
I don’t think we are being patronizing. There has been some very direct criticism.
After reading Doel’s translation (Thanks Doel!), I think Max does comprehend pin manipulation. And when he has a proper tuning hammer I think both his technique and his unisons will improve. I think it is significant that he has somehow tapered the inside of the socket. Maybe he cannot conceive of a usuable eight point tapered socket. Best not to try to read much into the translation.

 DoelKees

Max:
I think you try in your videos to teach people in your area how to tune pianos without buying expensive tools. How to make your own tuning hammer for example.
If we give you expensive tools you could work better but you can not teach anyone because the can not afford the tools.
Am I correct?
If you want tools I will add my $50 to the fund Jeff suggested to help you.

Я думаю, вы попробуйте в своих видео, чтобы научить людей в вашем районе, как настроить пианино, не покупая дорогих инструментов. Как сделать свой собственный молот тюнинг для примера.
Если мы дадим вам дорогие инструменты, которые могли бы работать лучше, но вы не можете научить никому, потому что не могут позволить себе инструменты.
Я правильно?
Если вы хотите инструментов я добавлю мои 50 долларов в фонд Джефф предложил, чтобы помочь вам.
Kees

 Maximillyan

Originally Posted By: DoelKees

Am I correct?

You are right 100%
The Dear piano's tech. THANK YOU SO MUCH. Your care do not know the borders. I love so much our Forum. Our forum solves the primary tasks on repair and usages piano. I for few months has got from You plenty of useful and constructive information though do not know english That tech. have begun to collect donation for Max this it is correct and pleasantly. I to notarize that money to me required for the further development skill. With deep respect, Max

 Withindale

Originally Posted By: UnrightTooner
Loren:Are you suggesting that we somehow protect Max's customers from themselves?

Click on this link for another take on Max's work from the UK - Encourage or not?

Loren D

Encourage to learn and get proper tools for the job? Absolutely. Encourage more of the same of what was in the video? Nope.

 pianolive

Made a parcel today for Max with a extension lever, tips, mutes and a few other things.
Will find the fastest and most secure way tomorrow to get it shipped to him.

 Maximillyan
Originally Posted By: pianolive

Made a parcel today for Max

THANKS!!!

rxd

Pianolive,
I have been making a few enqiuries, My suppliers say that many times, parcels are held at customs and

Continuation follows. Читать дальше ->



 

Категория: Настройка фортепиано | Добавил: donguluk (06.11.2011) | Автор: maxim-tuner E W
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    donguluk Западный Казахстан Настройка пианино Уральск ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа maxum tuner ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа maxim-tuner ансамбли Молоканова Ирина ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз переложения для фортепиано Восстановление фортепиано Жиганов максим тюнер наводнение Наводнение Уральск Наталья Швабенланд ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз пианино технология настройки восстановление пианино после наводн ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ключ для настройки фортепиано Призрак в туннеле ключ фортепиано Рояль стоимость настройки Западній Казахстан ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз Казахстан hammer piano настойка пианино ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ремонт молоточка фортепиано максим-тюнер deformed pedals piano takedown and installation ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ремонт педали ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз форум Классика tuning piano Barrie Heaton Johnkie rxd Withindale ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз Чистка пианино от пыли ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз Маша Сидорович пианино Петроф пианино Беларусь фестиваль-конкурс юных талантов детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз Деркул парк Кирова Рихтер Рыбалка татуировки тюрьма Урал Чаган ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз Юрий Владимирович Иванов ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз настройка фортепиано колок Максим ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз работа настроечным ключом Т-бар гофрокартон ремонт пианино запрессовка колка ключ для настройки пианино колки ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз сольфеджио maxim_tuner ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск מוסיקה לילדים электронное сольфеджио Уральск Germano De Rossi Gian Luca Pasolini Stefano Malferrari Елена Коробейникова Ернар Мынтаев Мария Сидорович Роза Тленчиева Фиесталония Миленио ноты для детей Уральсk электронное сольфеджио Уральсk corrugated cardboard max tuning pin without cardboard shim укрепление строя пианино ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз струна аккорд настроечный ключ ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз клавиши колковая доска Циммерман чугунная плита ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз аккордеон басы баян ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ремонт баяна после удара ремонт музыкальных инструментов оцинкованный колок ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз Уральск настройка пианино ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз Первоклассник ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз 噴粉 服務鋼琴 航空 электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа 儿童音樂 уральск ноты для детей настройка пианино maxim tuner kz Наводнение в Уральске восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн Светлан детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс Светлана Вастьянова детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс наурыз детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс Жания Аубакирова детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс Басовый штег Екатеринобург Наталия Швечкова Ремонт фортепиано настройка
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