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Tuning piano, children, music Вторник, 21.11.2017, 03:48
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Главная » 2011 » Октябрь » 19 » Encourage or not ? Способствовать Максиму или нет?
14:42
Encourage or not ? Способствовать Максиму или нет?

UK Piano Page Piano Discussion Forums «Encourage or not ?» ВЕЛИКОБРИТАНИЯ. ФОРУМ ФОРТЕПИАНО. «Способствовать Максиму или нет?» Выдержки из дискуссии по поводу методик настройки фортепиано, предложенных Максимом-тюнером

Johnkie » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:56 am Just wondering what other feel about encouraging non-trained "tuners". An example of which is clearly demonstrated by following this link : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gQ-ZInLsF4 Concert Tuner & Technician for 45+ years - North East UK

joe » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:10 pm Would say the link is self evident,get a pro.

D.J.Smith » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:18 pm Gordon Bennett. You'd think he would at least get the correct tools. Novel technique too, bending pins instead of turning them.

Johnkie » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:54 pm Thank the Lord that you think the same ....this guy does all sorts of crazy things, and is a regular poster on the American site. At first I thought his videos were some kind of joke, but when the penny dropped that they weren't, I posted a comment stating that I thought he should wear a stetson and a pair of six-guns! There does appear to be quite a few "Tuner/Techs" on the American site that think he should be applauded for doing what he does - stating that where he lives, money is lacking and people just have to make do and mend. Maybe I'm being a little too overboard and slightly un-kind by being so harsh .... but I would have thought that most professionals would have had exactly the same reaction as myself. Doesn't do much for the reputation of the profession for the general piano playing public to see this kind of thing accepted on piano forums though

D.J.Smith » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:08 pm Being hard-up is no excuse for not buying the correct tools. A perfectly servicable set of regulating/tuning tools can be bought direct from China on the internet for about £200. I know they are not the best quality [ I have a set ], but they do the job.

Barrie Heaton » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:45 pm its a 1980 Russian pianos you can turn them pins with your teeth, they are that loose. Mind you he need to watch the Bass the strings they run across the pins and tend to snap

Gill the Piano » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:06 pm Seen the key-cleaning one? How can you make a video lasting six and a quarter minutes out of 'Clean greasy keys with vodka on a bit of rag'??

sussexpianos » Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:03 pm There are some interesting techi stuff on the site but mostly its a joke. I had a customer in last month, bought a lever on ebay(China) but it won't fit the tuning pins! I had to laugh as I had quoted him to come a tune it but he spent the money buying a lever, which is usless. He even tried to sell it to me! It was very light and will probably break on a new piano. Mind you, I did shear off the head of my Steinway pattern lever the other month, I had that at college! A piano tuner is the "Unseen artist", treat them with respect and don't serve them cheap coffee! http://www.sussexpianos.co.uk

NewAge » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:32 pm Gill the Piano wrote:Seen the key-cleaning one? How can you make a video lasting six and a quarter minutes out of 'Clean greasy keys with vodka on a bit of rag'?? This one caught my eye, but I'm still trying to fathom out whether he means 'naked' or 'knackered' piano. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr9g0zH7 ... re=related If nothing else there's certainly no lack of enthusiasm there. When I was a young kid I would have been over the moon if our tuner had shown me how to dismantle the piano. Don't think Dad would have approved though - with or without a share of vodka. I was playing the piano in a zoo, when the elephant burst into tears. I said, "Don't you recognize the tune?" He replied, "No, I recognize the ivories!"

Barrie Heaton » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:04 pm the finished job http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZMSMV4I ... re=related I wonder how this guy is getting after a year http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taLWfNXREU4 Hmm he is advertising http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4EYuwY5 ... er&list=UL

D.J.Smith » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:07 am Sussex. Your customer was unlucky. My chinese hammer is substantial, with a solid rosewood handle, works very well. Even the best tips don't fit if they are the wrong size for the particular pin, whether from China or F&N. Perhaps all he needed was the correct size tip ? Mind you, if he didn't realise that, I wonder if he was competent to tune. BTW, a hammer bought from a UK supplier is probably made in China anyway !

Barrie Heaton » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:41 am D.J.Smith wrote: BTW, a hammer bought from a UK supplier is probably made in China anyway ! With F&N some are made in the UK and some are indeed made in China. The Steinway type are made in the UK including the heads

Withindale » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:35 pm Piano Advice poster wrote:Gordon Bennett. You'd think he would at least get the correct tools. Novel technique too, bending pins instead of turning them. Piano World poster wrote:The first step in helping Max would be better equipment. If there was some way to set up an account with Frank's PianoSupplies.com for Max to use I will put in the first $50. Piano World poster wrote:Max did send me his address and I will mail him a tuning lever plus some other things. Pre-paying excise duty.Your suggestion is brilliant. Even though we often behave like a loose confederation of warring tribes, we can unite to help a colleague.

Colin Nicholson » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:43 am What a joke!!!! ...... cowboy at work! I couldn't believe he was using a plectrum on the end of a bit of string.... WOW!!, and loved the 1/2 inch drive socket set & extension bar!!!!.... I've got one of those, but didn't realise instead of removing wheel nuts, I could tune a piano!!!! Reckon Matt Allwright would have a field day here!!

Withindale » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:02 am Colin Nicholson wrote:What a joke!!!! Piano World poster wrote: Piano World poster wrote:Is he bending the pins to tune, or is there a rotary component I'm missing? Yes, there is a rotary component, and he is also bending the pins to tune. Many of us have seen skilful tuners get that last 2 cents by deliberately 'lifting' the pin. I learned this from a Japanese Master Tech years ago. I spent a week with him, both of us tuning our respective employers' pianos for a piano competition. Of course you have to know precicely where the pin is from a combined torque and flagpole standpoint and therein lies the skill. That, plus experience, years of it. It looks like Max has discovered this by himself.

mdw » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:21 am Why is there no pride in this trade. If you want to be a tuner go get a proper training and learn to be a tuner. If you want to be a dealer get a proper tech training. We as qualified tuner techs should not be encouraging all these bodgers be they dealers or tuners. It seems to be the default position for anyone whos failed at another job, oh I can play therefore I will be a piano expert, tuner, mover or seller. I have no sympathy for anyone who buys the cheapest piano they can and then has problems.

D.J.Smith » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:01 am mdw : You're right about bodgers and professionals. Unfortunately it is very difficult for a customer to determine one from the other, until it's too late. The cheapest deal could still be the best. A high price is no guarantee of quality or value. The piano trade seems to be a haven for the unscrupulous and dishonest.

Withindale » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:05 am Johnkie wrote:Just wondering what other feel about encouraging non-trained "tuners". What is your opinion after reading the Piano World thread? Maximillian's opening comment was "Tuning a piano with mediator I use when tuning of piano with mediator. Such way allows to search for the sounds of the necessary height without shim and laying of the tape. I listen harmonic assonance and intervals".

Barrie Heaton » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:52 am mdw wrote:Why is there no pride in this trade. If you want to be a tuner go get a proper training and learn to be a tuner. If you want to be a dealer get a proper tech training. We as qualified tuner techs should not be encouraging all these bodgers be they dealers or tuners. It seems to be the default position for anyone whos failed at another job, oh I can play therefore I will be a piano expert, tuner, mover or seller. I have no sympathy for anyone who buys the cheapest piano they can and then has problems. A tad harsh - I would have thought sales and accounting training would be more useful to a dealer, some of the more successful piano retailers in the UK have not got a clue what's inside a piano, why! should they, they are selling them not fixing them. The piano movers: There I do have empathy as some the big one have invested a lot of money in training and equipment. The one man and a van come a along and quotes peanuts. However, some of our big player started off as one man and a van. As to tuners define "proper training" Newark is not an option for all - and what it taut now, is not as in-depth as what was show in the 70s. So I was told, but having never been to Newark can't say if this is true or not. As to College training to me its good at teaching you the basics, but then you go out and train and learn we have too many who have left with the attitude "that it, I'am a pro and know it all " There are some very good tuners out there who never seen the inside of College In the end it all down to personal ethics if you have any or not and the desire to improve your skills on how you conduct your business, what ever it is .

Barrie Heaton » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:02 pm Withindale wrote: Johnkie wrote:Just wondering what other feel about encouraging non-trained "tuners". What is your opinion after reading the Piano World thread? Maximillian's opening comment was "Tuning a piano with mediator I use when tuning of piano with mediator. Such way allows to search for the sounds of the necessary height without shim and laying of the tape. I listen harmonic assonance and intervals". His mentor need training as well I don't no if you renumber a program called "That's Life" They had a piano tuner on there rogue trades man section He used Vim to clean the action and 3in1 oil on the centres this guy was a complete nuttier, but after the program he advertised "Have your piano tuned as seen on That's Life " he could not cope with the work are we in danger of doing the same with this guy.

Withindale » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:19 pm D.J.Smith wrote:mdw: You're right about bodgers and professionals. Unfortunately it is very difficult for a customer to determine one from the other, until it's too late. The cheapest deal could still be the best. A high price is no guarantee of quality or value. The piano trade seems to be a haven for the unscrupulous and dishonest. From the pianist's point of view: 1. Never let a tuner or a technician near your piano until you have established their credentials. 2. Buy a new, used or restored piano from a reputable dealer or privately only after consulting your tuner or technician. 3. For the cheapest deal, do your research; find a good, unrestored, moderately used piano privately, leaving tuning and other technical work to trusted professionals. If you have the time and inclination learn to do basic regulation for yourself. I followed the third route. Dealers would have had no option but to refinish the case, replace the hammers and damper felts, and possibly re-pin. All of this necessary for them to offer a marketable instrument (but unnecessary for me). At best this would have added thousands to the price. At worst poor materials and workmanship would have degraded the instrument and, in my case, possibly not fixed a hidden problem with action alignment. Caveat emptor.

Gill the Piano » Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:42 pm Barrie Heaton wrote:I don't no if you renumber a program called "That's Life" They had a piano tuner on there rogue trades man section He used Vim to clean the action and 3in1 oil on the centres this guy was a complete nuttier, but after the program he advertised "Have your piano tuned as seen on That's Life " he could not cope with the work are we in danger of doing the same with this guy.

rxd » Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:54 pm STOP! STOP! Already. This sounds like the rabble baying for blood!!!!. Is this a trait of 'college trained' people??? Shakespeare wrote about protesting too much and went on to say how much it is evidence of low self esteem to have to put down another in order for a person to feel secure about themselves. I am told this is a British trait. I haven't found it so until this. Am I mixing with the wrong sort? What's to be so elitist about? There are some of us who do manufacturers guarantee work around the country, Usually after a few attempts at a fix have been made by locals.... Not saying anything, just drawing in the sand with a stick, for those to whom this is not an obscure reference. Do any of you get it yet? (I did hear a couple of still, small voices) Max is in Kazakhstan. I have not been there but I have found myself traveling in similar places. There's nothing there. He is all there is and he is working with what he has got. I have done some research and find that even to send him more suitable tools is full of pitfalls once they reach his countrys' borders with customs and excise problems, he would have to travel miles to claim them and pay duties. This he cannot do, for many reasons. Is anybody from here going that way who could take him some tools that I can supply?? Anybody here know anything about Kazakhstan customs and excise? Anybody want to help a fellow human being in any way? I will contact the Kazakhstan Embassy tomorrow to see what can be done. I hope they can at least figure the duties so I can prepay. or, at best, get some stuff delivered in the diplomatic bag. Or would you prefer for me to ask the Embassy to have him cease and desist???? Now you can start pelting your vile bile at me!!!!!

Silverwood Pianos » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:00 pm Hello Johnkie, I would agree with you that the fellow in Kazakhstan needs better equipment and skill training. From my point of view Max appears to be self taught; he has learned to make do with the tools he has and the skill set he has for the moment. The most positive thing I see is the fact that this person truly wants to help people in his country keep their pianos in playable shape to continue to learn the joy of music. There is a certain amount of bravery for him to show his tools and skills set and risk the criticisms he has encountered both here and on the American forum. In an industry where the acoustic instrument sales are in a downward trend,I believe it behooves all of us to try and elevate his skills along with his tool upgrades. By doing so we all assist the music industry and the musical trades component of that. Remember that this fellow is in a country which for a long time had a paternalistic government controls which only allowed them certain knowledge, skill set and tools. Now the recently discovered freedoms does not necessarily come the funding for the people of that country to investigate those freedoms

dancarney » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:25 pm rxd, I have some info that might facilitate the transpiration of tuning tools... Check your inbox @ Piano world. Dan Dan Carney BMus(Hons) DipABRSM

D.J.Smith » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:31 pm rxd: My comment re bodgers/professionals was directed at the UK trade. I get the impression you agree ?

rxd » Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:26 pm D.J.Smith wrote:rxd: My comment re bodgers/professionals was directed at the UK trade. I get the impression you agree ? I said what I said. I was careful not to indulge in name-calling since that would make me guilty of the very thing I speak out against. I did not read anything in great detail, just got a general drift of what was happening. By the way, as i'm sure you know, a 'Bodger' is a very skilled woodsman who spends his time out in the open air turning chair legs for the craftsmen who make chairs. He, too, works with tools mainly of his own devising. I took the time to partially learn that skill when I chose to work at an open air museum in Virginia. Just enough to gain a great respect for those who did this work. What a great way to live, Eh?

Barrie Heaton » Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:13 pm rxd wrote: Max is in Kazakhstan. I have not been there but I have found myself traveling in similar places. There's nothing there. He is all there is and he is working with what he has got. I have done some research and find that even to send him more suitable tools is full of pitfalls once they reach his countrys' borders with customs and excise problems, he would have to travel miles to claim them and pay duties. This he cannot do, for many reasons. Now you can start pelting your vile bile at me!!!!! Must admit I thought he was in the US. However, what about the guys out in that part of the world that can tune and try make a living its a very large country with 15.7 million there must be some

mdw » Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:47 pm rxd wrote:Shakespeare wrote about protesting too much and went on to say how much it is evidence of low self esteem to have to put down another in order for a person to feel secure about themselves. I am told this is a British trait. I haven't found it so until this. Am I mixing with the wrong sort? What's to be so elitist about?Why is it classed as elitist to want to see the job done correctly and whats wrong with that? Ive no problem with people wanting to become piano tuners, techs , dealers but get a propper training first so you know what you are talking about. I spent 3 years full time training at Newark and then the last 27 years in this trade as a tuner tech dealer so I probably know a little about pianos. Perhaps you want to tag along next time next time im asked to tune a piano supplied by our local cowboy. I get pencils instead of hammer shanks, rubber bands instead of butt springs, tapes and correct centres and the coup de gras a staple gun used to do a soundboard repair. I then have to tell the customer that the pile of junk they have paid £500 for should be scrapped. And people fall for this tosh time after time. You would be a bit miffed if the mechanic who worked on your £40k car wasnt properly trained so whats so wrong with a trained tuner working on or moving your £40k piano. The bloke in Kazakhstan has an excuse but there are quite a few of his type on the uk which is where my comments are aimed. Ps i am entirely happy with my sense of security, although thanks for your concern.

Withindale » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:41 pm rxd wrote:Max is in Kazakhstan. I have not been there but I have found myself traveling in similar places. There's nothing there. I have been to Kazakhstan, twice, to an industrial town several hours driving across the steppe from Astana the capital where the money is. So I can tell you RXD and Silverwood Pianos are spot on. People have been left to their own devices for years. Literally in the Soviet era when some were kicked out of trains and told to start digging. Who is going to set up classes for tuners and technicians to service old Russian pianos out there?

Withindale » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:11 pm mdw wrote:I spent 3 years full time training at Newark and then the last 27 years in this trade as a tuner tech dealer so I probably know a little about pianos. Perhaps you want to tag along next time next time im asked to tune a piano supplied by our local cowboy. I get pencils instead of hammer shanks, rubber bands instead of butt springs, tapes and correct centres and the coup de gras a staple gun used to do a soundboard repair. I then have to tell the customer that the pile of junk they have paid £500 for should be scrapped. And people fall for this tosh time after time. A suggestion for next time. Start educating the public. Take you camera along, snap the horrors, and publish them here under "Pianos - Good Bad and Ugly" or something. Get others to do the same, include some "before" and "after" success stories, and the message will start to get across. Not just fancy restorations but interesting examples of pianos where a bit of regulation makes all the difference. That might show people what to look for and promote your services at the same time.

Johnkie » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:23 pm  My original post was prompted by a collection of videos showing someone working in ways that at first, I thought were complete spoofs. Having realised that this guy was in fact, being serious, I became seriously concerned about how many professional tuner/technicians (mostly on the American piano site) thought his methods were tolerable given that fact that he was "doing his best bearing in mind his personal circumstances". Whilst undoubtedly commendable that some feel inclined to offer this guy help by offering to furnish tools and offer advice, the real problem remains that he thinks he is doing a good job. Furthermore, I find it amazing that some have the gall to criticise those of us that are un-willing to tolerate such malpractice, and feel justified in lambasting those who care about the standard of workmanship within our profession. This guy should be told that his work is not good, and that he really should not profess to be a tuner/technician ..... until he has the knowledge, skill, and sufficient experience that should rightfully be expected. He may well be a great guy, deserving more than life in his country allows, and is doing no wrong in trying to help those that are prepared to let him loose on their instruments .... but he can only be regarded as someone that is trying his best to help, and not someone who is either a tuner or technician. Yes indeed there are many bad examples within our profession, beit UK, American, or anywhere else in the world, but that should never be accepted by those that actually care about the professional standing within our industry. Would you let this guy operate on your clients instrument ? If the answer is anything other than NO ... then I would hang my head in shame at the thought. I have given up on the site I mentioned ... finding it riddled with rudeness and bullying by a small core of people that consider themselves expert, when in fact the ones with the loudest voices are often the ones that have the largest male appendages! Before giving up though.... I did express my admiration, and salute those whom were shining examples of what should be expected.

rxd » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:58 am  I have observed changes in Max over the few months of his posting. His latest posts indicate that he wants to be helped. This would not have happened if he had been summarily kicked aside without a fair hearing. Were it not for what has happened here, well, not here, but on the American site, he would be innocently going on his way just like Professor Rose whom nobody could stop because nobody reached out, everybody ridiculed instead. (I was living in Beckenham in Roses' days, right in his patch but our paths never crossed). He would have been an interesting chap to have a beer with, don't you think? Would I 'let' (?) my clients employ this man? That's purely hypethetical. I would strongly advise against it. But would I stand in their doorway and physically bar his entry? That would be the ultimate control freak. I once hired a tuner for a piano store, well, his audition tuning was quite scruffy so I asked him if he could do a cleaner tuning and he presented me with a fine, solid tuning so I hired him on 3 months trial ... He never did a clean tuning after that! I thought I had made the mistake of a lifetime. When the 3 months was up, he had developed his own following and was making money for the company. The national director had a business degree from a prestigeous university and the branch manager at this store (in a major city) was a vice president and the principal negotiator and accountant for this company. I was highly praised for my hiring skills. It left me thinking, what do I know?. I still don't know if there was a method to his madness of everything was completely random. Every tuning department had it's stories about the new tuner who has to go back to destroy their careful unisons to satisfy a particular customer. There was a preacher who messed with pianos in one town. It was more cost effective to have me correct his unnecessary work on new pianos from time to time because he brought so much sales business to the store. I believe Max would benefit from training where others might not. . There is a music conservatory in Kz. It is 3600 miles away!!(big country) Moscow is closer but not much. While it is hard to believe from our point of view that in a town as large as Max's, There has to be somewhere closer where there would be a knowlegable piano tuner to approach for advice, maybe not. There isn't much opportunity for training left even here and we had a thriving piano industry not that long ago, Kazakhstan had no such thing. This thread, if nothing else, has made us all learn a little, think a little and air some different opinions and feelings. Always a good thing. Thank you.

Johnkie » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:28 pm  There are clearly two points of view as to whether Max should be regarded as a cowboy or saint! Speaking as a person that has undergone 5 years training and a subsequent 41 years on the road, I have seen many terrible examples of "tuner / technicians" who have woken up one morning and suddenly thought that they could make a living passing themselves off as such. Professor Rose ( I knew all about him when I was training in London ) - The one that went around oiling actions, inserting rubber bands and drawing pins everywhere ... leaving a trail of destruction behind ! The general public have a right to expect a person trading as a tuner has the skills to do a decent ( no always perfect I'll grant you ) job. The example set by this guy Max shows quite clearly that he has no such skill .... yet! This section of the forum is all about Piano Advice, and generally a good place to discuss all manner of problems related to pianos. It is open to everyone and therefore a prime location for people like Max to post links to his videos for others to view. Anyone wishing to enter this trade may be lead to believe that his methods "must be correct" because they are examples given on a piano forum. My main gripe originally was because his posts and video links were posted on the "Piano Tuner and Technicians" area of the American site - somewhere that one would expect only be open to qualified and accepted Tuner/Technicians to post. I therefore commented, thinking it to be a total wind up! I'm not interested in whether a bad tuner can bring in more money, and therefore deemed "good for business" - I'm clearly on the side of the customer getting a professional and good quality service. Perhaps my morals are set too high ... I admit that I am not a very good businessman, but care very much about giving a good service for a reasonable price. As for Max .... Well it would seem that he has a good heart, and aspires to become part of the piano tuning world, but is unable to undertake suitable training using the necessary tools ... that is indeed, unfortunate, but there again, most people would wish at sometime in their lives to be able to do something new, and without the wherewith all sadly can't ! If he is to succeed he needs the necessary competencies and tools first ... until that time ... he has no place messing about with oil, t-bar extension socket sets, promoting himself as a Tuner / Tech.

rxd » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:00 pm Johnkie, I basically agree, however, The need to purify either ones profession or ones race is not in itself a sign of moral superiority as history has proven. It is not either/or, guilty/innocent. A scenario where everyone wins is an ideal to aim for. Culturally, the west has an us/them mentality we even often define ourselves by what we are not so a win- win situation is a hard one to grasp. Americans, both Yanks and Feds, are getting it. All this muckraking will not improve the situation for Max or his customers. We all like to feel a little self righteous moral indignation from time to time and that's all that this is accomplishing. I have always sensed there is something we are not seeing here. I have seen maverick operators exist alongside more traditional operators. Professor Rose is an example. Ridiculing him only made him more successful. If he had operated in a cultural backwater, would it be any different? Max has told us about himself and living in a town of 300,000, I find it hard to believe he is in a cultural backwater but I don't know Kz. I have friends in a better position to look into this. Where do the techs at the Conservatory get their tools, or do they use socket sets too? That last statement is not intended as a cruel joke, I am quite serious. I simply don't know. Enough for now. I'll keep you posted. I'll leave it there for now

Barrie Heaton » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:37 pm rxd wrote:Johnkie, Where do the techs at the Conservatory get their tools, or do they use socket sets too? That last statement is not intended as a cruel joke, I am quite serious. I simply don't know. Its not the tools that are important its what you do with them that is. Ever seen an impact tuning leaver to me that is just as odd as using a socket set, but if it works for you then OK.

rxd » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:56 am I agree, Barrie, Max tells us (at least as far as I can make out the prose style of his computer translation) he has a square tapered socket and finds the 8 (I assume star shaped) sided difficult. I borrowed an impact lever for a day on one of those mammoth sales they have in America where they sell as many as 250 pianos over a long weekend and have 3 tuners in the same huge room (drill hall or hotel ballroom) preping them. (I'll tell you about all that if anyone's interested). I persevered all day but I went back to my staid old ways. Much the same effect can be had by using a No.3 or 4 size tip on a No.2 pin in such a way as to get about 10-15 degrees rotational play without marring the pin. Use a heavy lever or extend so that most of the weight is at the end. Looks ungainly, but you'll get the idea, the original uses a more compact weight. Hold the tool at the tip, right over the tuning pin, 'throwing' the tool using the weight of the handle to move the pin in small increments, theoretically eliminating flagpoling. Seems to work best on uprights. Barrie, I just realised this is the on the public side of the forum. Use your magic to move it if you think necessary. I found it interesting that you also were taught to use a T hammer so relatively recently(!). Any further input from yourself or the rest of the forum would hold my attention.

Barrie Heaton » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:24 pm rxd wrote: Much the same effect can be had by using a No.3 or 4 size tip on a No.2 pin in such a way as to get about 10-15 degrees rotational play without marring the pin. Use a heavy lever or extend so that most of the weight is at the end. Looks ungainly, but you'll get the idea, the original uses a more compact weight. Hold the tool at the tip, right over the tuning pin, 'throwing' the tool using the weight of the handle to move the pin in small increments, theoretically eliminating flagpoling. Seems to work best on uprights. Flagpoling can be useful on pianos with lots of drag and you know the pin is set but the string is not However, excessive Flagpoling can bend the pin. rxd wrote: I found it interesting that you also were taught to use a T hammer so relatively recently(!). Any further input from yourself or the rest of the forum would hold my attention. That was back in the 70s it was to build up your squeeze technique and get a feel for the pin. Which when you see some of the demo on Youtube you wonder how they will get to feel the pin with a big clunky lever to start with, yes uses one later on, on pianos with very tight pins I still use a T hammer on some vintage pianos I still tune. On the impact lever, it seems to be more suited to tuners who use ETD as they are the only ones I have seen using them. The carbon fibre levers look interesting if not a bit on the expensive side I still have my Steinway lever from the 70s few new heads over the years I have a master leaver but that one only comes out if I have a piano with very stiff pins.

  

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    donguluk Западный Казахстан Настройка пианино Уральск ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз maxum tuner ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз maxim-tuner ансамбли Молоканова Ирина ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз переложения для фортепиано Восстановление фортепиано Жиганов максим тюнер наводнение Наводнение Уральск Наталья Швабенланд ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз пианино технология настройки восстановление пианино после наводн ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ключ для настройки фортепиано Призрак в туннеле ключ фортепиано Рояль стоимость настройки Западній Казахстан ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа Казахстан hammer piano настойка пианино ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ремонт молоточка фортепиано электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа максим-тюнер deformed pedals piano takedown and installation ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ремонт педали электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз форум Классика электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа tuning piano Barrie Heaton Johnkie rxd Withindale ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз Чистка пианино от пыли электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа Маша Сидорович пианино Петроф пианино Беларусь фестиваль-конкурс юных талантов детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа Деркул парк Кирова Рихтер Рыбалка татуировки тюрьма Урал Чаган ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа Юрий Владимирович Иванов ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа настройка фортепиано колок Максим ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз работа настроечным ключом Т-бар электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа гофрокартон ремонт пианино запрессовка колка ключ для настройки пианино колки ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз сольфеджио maxim_tuner ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск מוסיקה לילדים электронное сольфеджио Уральск Germano De Rossi Gian Luca Pasolini Stefano Malferrari Елена Коробейникова Ернар Мынтаев Мария Сидорович Роза Тленчиева Фиесталония Миленио ноты для детей Уральсk электронное сольфеджио Уральсk corrugated cardboard max tuning pin without cardboard shim укрепление строя пианино ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз струна аккорд настроечный ключ ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз клавиши колковая доска Циммерман чугунная плита ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз аккордеон басы баян ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ремонт баяна после удара ремонт музыкальных инструментов оцинкованный колок ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз Уральск настройка пианино ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз электронное сольфеджио ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз Первоклассник ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз ноты для детей Уральск Западный Каз 噴粉 服務鋼琴 航空 электронное сольфеджио Уральск Запа 儿童音樂 уральск ноты для детей настройка пианино maxim tuner kz Наводнение в Уральске восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн восстановление пианино после наводн Светлан детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс Светлана Вастьянова детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс наурыз детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс Жания Аубакирова детская музыкальная школа №1 Уральс Басовый штег Екатеринобург Наталия Швечкова Ремонт фортепиано настройка
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